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    • Deborah 13: Servant of God

      1 Star2 Stars3 Stars4 Stars5 Stars (7 votes, average: 2.86 out of 5)
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      If you can think back to your teenage years, do you remember what it was like to be a 13-year-old? What was your perspective on the world? What sorts of things did you? Did you hang out a lot with your friends? Did you listen to music? Watch television? For 13-year-old Deborah Drapper, these are all things she is not familiar with. Her friends are her family.

      In this documentary, Deborah 13: Servant of God, viewers will get an in-depth look inside her life growing up in a deeply Christian family. Her parents have done their best to make sure she, as well as her ten brothers and sisters have been raised guarded from the sins of the outside world. The sins of the world outside of their farm.

      Deborah is an intelligent and assertive girl. She has big ambitions for herself in life. As you will see in this film she believes she found God at the young age of 6.

      For the most part, she rarely leaves her family farm, until now. This film will feature a visit with her older brother who is away at University. How will she react to a world completely unfamiliar to her? To a society in which she has never really had the opportunity of interacting with?


      Sorry, I removed this video at the request of Special Edition Films, the copyright holders of the film.

      please share:
      Published on March 14, 2009 · Filed under: Religion
    • Yeshua is YHVH

      Amen :) may YHVH use her for His glory.

    • apostolidis

      I thought Muslims are fanatics only ! you just prove me wrong….

      just one question , and what IF there was no god ?

      you just brain wash here…and that is going to make here live bloody difficult ….wait and see

    • Nick

      UnFuckingBelievable!! These parents are guilty of child abuse. What morons still believe in the Bible in this day and age and think hell exists. She's never heard of The Beatles!! She's going to get such a shock when she grows up and has to look after herself in the real world. And what about her 8 brothers and sisters? Truly disturbing…

    • Jesus

      Dear Professor Dawkins, come and help this poor family please.

    • lina

      so every human is a sinner and god sent his son to die on the cross for our sins, and we ask jesus for forgiveness, otherwise we all deserve to go to hell?!!!!! it is disturbing….

      a true and powerful god has the power to forgive our sins,a just god would not punish someone else for my sins…specially not his son that is he has one but an all knowing god would have no sons….because it's human to give birth to sons and god is not human, god is all knowing merciful he is just and he is one he has no sons or daughters no partners.
      and the fact that god has created the universe doesnt contradict that there was a big bang because god created the big bang…science and religion can go together and agree, that is what god wants us to do on earth…learn study investigate question and challenge our beliefs how else are we going to search for the truth?

    • Seraphim

      Lina said: "a true and powerful god has the power to forgive our sins,a just god would not punish someone else for my sins"

      A true and powerful God must possess all his attributes in the absolute: If he is knowing, he must be all-knowing; if he is just, he must be all-just; if he is merciful, he must be all-merciful.

      The problem is, mercy and justice work in opposition to one another. Mercy is forgoing of punishment earned, whereas justice is application of punishment earned. That is, if any trangression of the law goes unpunished, God compromises his justice.

      The Bible is the only book on this earth that has a satisfactory answer to this problem. It reconciles God's justice with his mercy. In the Bible, every last sin is punished. Punishment either received by humans, or received by God himself when he entered into his own creation to atone for us. If he "just forgives" as you are suggesting, his justice made less than absolute (rendering him no longer the absolute God). This idea of him "just forgiving" falsifies the idea of a monotheistic God.

      lina said: "specially not his son that is he has one but an all knowing god would have no sons"

      I think you should re-examine this line of thinking. Being all-knowing in no way precludes the idea of God entering into his own creation in the form of Jesus.

      "because it's human to give birth to sons and god is not human"

      The Christian belief is not that God "gives birth", it is that God entered into his own creation by his own will for a specific purpose.

      "god is all knowing merciful he is just and he is one he has no sons or daughters no partners."

      The Christian concept of God is that God is one, and it is NOT that he has partners. It is that the One God is a complex unity. It is monotheism, it is just not "unitarianism".

      Hopefully this cleared up some of your misunderstandings

    • lina

      oh no it's not misunderstanding…it is understanding….this is how i know a god should be..god wouldn't even need to enter human life in the form of human…so that he can feel our pain and forgive our sins…god created us and the universe..so he should have the power to forgive our sins and we can have a direct relationship with him not through some human form called jesus…
      really it's like using your right hand to point to your left ear…why not use a more straight forward understanding of GOD! it is really much more simple than that….god doesn't need to die for us for our sins!!! he can just forgive them!!!
      an ALL hearing god would just hear me when i say god forgive me and forgive me with his great mercy and will, but you say i have to believe that jesus died for me for this to happen…what about all the people that died before jesus, and never knew about him because they died long before he was born! did jesus die for them too! but they didnt believe in him because he didnt exist..and now i have to believe in him because i just happened to be born after the event otherwise i go to hell! but all the people before him are either all forgiven without having to believe in all of this…or are all going to hell for simply existing before him..it doesnt make sense and it's not just…and that wouldn't be the way an ALL-just god would treat his creation…
      i'm sure you will find some sort of complex answer to this queston! but i prefer simple and direct understanding of god and the mercy of god, and i want a direct relationship with god simple and clear…
      in the end i say, you dont believe what i believe and i dont believe what you believe, you have your faith and i have mine!

    • Seraphim

      Lina, you are still misunderstanding the point. It's not that God "needed" to do it, it's that He "chose" to do it.

      "why not use a more straight forward understanding of GOD!"

      Because God is not simple and easy to understand. He is the most complex being in existance.

      "god doesn't need to die for us for our sins!!!"

      No, but He chose to.

      "he can just forgive them!!!"

      Only by comprimising His justice, thereby ceasing to be all-just. I wish you would interact with what I'm saying instead of just repeating what God can't and doesn't do.

      "what about all the people that died before jesus, and never knew about him because they died long before he was born!"

      First, there is no "before" Jesus. He has eternally existed. Everyone who falls in the categories you mentioned is forgiven by: faith there would be a Messiah, or adherence to the previous Covenants God gave (which go all the way back to Adam). Nothing confusing about that. But this isn't relevant to you or I or anyone reading this.

      "and now i have to believe in him because i just happened to be born after the event otherwise i go to hell"

      I don't send anyone to hell. That's God's choice. But the fact is, you are calling God a liar by not accepting His way that He provided. Besides, Islam teaches that people will go to hell as well, based on what they believe. So as a Muslim there is no logical way for you to reject this premise.

      "and that wouldn't be the way an ALL-just god would treat his creation."

      Actually, as I have already demonstrated it is the ONLY way God can preserve all His mercy AND all His justice. Islam has no answer for this problem. Allah's mercy is provided at the expense of his justice. He allows sins to go unpunished in the universe. My God has every sin punished, and still provides mercy to those whom accept it.

      "but i prefer simple and direct understanding of god and the mercy of god"

      Again why do you think God is "simple"? You are actually confusing "simple and direct" with what you are familiar with. Just because it's what you've been told most of your life, that doesn't make it the most logical or correct way.

      "i want a direct relationship with god simple and clear"

      Firstly, where in the Quran does Allah promise you "direct relationship" with him? He doesn't. The God of the Bible actually DOES promise this in the most intimate way possible. I find it disconcerting that you keep repeating "simple" over and over again like a mantra. Anything is "simple" once you understand it. You have to use your God-given brain, not just look for the easy, simple way.

      "you dont believe what i believe and i dont believe what you believe, you have your faith and i have mine!"

      Quoting Surah 109 is not a valid response. Don't you see how the Quran has trapped your mind? Rather than wrestling with the truth you are typing pre-supplied statements that give you an escape clause. Yes, we have different religions, but according to our beliefs the other is wrong. You believe I am in danger of the judgment of God, same I believe of you.

      If I didn't believe in gravity, and I was about to jump off a building, would you tell me "Oh well, you have your beliefs and I have mine"?

      Please go back to my original comment and explain to me how the Quran allows a way for God to preserve both ALL of his mercy, and ALL of his justice.

    • logic

      god doesnt exist, grow the fuck up

    • wednesday

      hahahahahahaha

    • Seraphim

      Well, with an argument that lucid and intelligent, obviously you must be right.

      (and in case your sarcasm-detector is broken, I was being facetious)

      I would expect nothing less from a creature in rebellion who is actively supressing the knowledge of his Creator.

    • Sideeffected

      How very sad! I fear for the future of humanity with people who condone,what is basicaly child abuse, this type of upbringing.
      All thinking men are atheists! Quote by Earnest Hemingway.

    • CBat

      Let your light shine, but please keep it out of people's faces Deborah.

    • Dave

      (sorry, this is going to be a long post)

      I apologize if this comes across as rude, I don't mean it to be.
      But Seraphim (you are tough, you are taking a lot of heat, good for you), you said "Just because it's what you've been told most of your life, that doesn't make it the most logical or correct way". I would agree with that, including the religious take on life as well.

      If you grew up in a different part of the world, you would probably have a different religious view and if circumstances were different, would be arguing agaisnt Christianity. I know that is not the case, but either way, by looking at the majority of the posts on this page, once again religion has divided us. I for one, do not believe in God and I have no qualms with anyone that has posted anything on this page.

      I believe we are born, we live and then we die. Nothing more, nothing less. I can't believe the opposite because of a book that says, "nah don't worry, have faith" to me it just seems a little bit silly. I rely on science, facts, what people are discovering now, perhaps my mind would change if we had some actual proof, because faith isn't good enough for me to base my life around (I only get one chance at life, I need to be sure about things).

      That is part of the natural cycle and yes, it's scary to think that that's it, but I prefer to believe in a brutally honestt truth than to delude myself with a false sense of security (again, sorry if this comes across as mean, I really don't mean it to be offensive, but I am trying to get across my point of view).

      I grew up in a semi-religious environment that wasn't forced upon me, but was still accessible (we went to church up until I was about 12). I believed in it because as I child, I took cues from my parents, that makes sense. When I grew up I started to think about it, and realised that I didn't believe in the concept of God, it seemed too far fetched, and all too human-like to be like, "be this way, don't question it, just follow these rules". Not believing in God wasn't a bad thing for me, and I know that surely you are thinking the opposite because clearly the concept of God means something to you that it doesnt for me.

      I am a good person, I am good to others, and I also do not believe in God. I don't think aetheism needs to be seen as "rebellion", if anything, religion is a rebellion of rationality.

      anyway, this is simply my opinion, hope I expressed that without being offensive. Good on you for sticking to what you believe in.

      peace

    • nabz

      Ok these are basic questions for the ones who believe that there is no God.

      Have you ever questioned yourself the true reason of our existence?

      Have you ever stop and observe something natural and wondered why it so beautiful and appealing and what made it be like that?

      And the big question who just relay on big bang…

      Where did those tiny and smaller than atom particles came from, which seem to be our origin. And why were they happen to be in one place and not drifted apart and wander about in space?

      There are many such questions which require ‘unnatural force‘ as to be the answer.

      Why is it that we always lie about and say ‘I only believe in the proof of science’ where as the truth is we are scared to be answerable to some who would judge us according to our rights and wrongs?

    • Dave

      Hey Nabz, interesting questions. I feel that they may be a bit broad to answer on a site like this and sort of hard to answer considering they cover philosophy and astro physics in a few hundred words.

      If you truly want a different perspective, and you are genuinely looking for answers that might give a scientific understanding to the 'default God' issue (If science has yet to come up with an explanation, God becomes the default winner, "no reason as of yet? must be God then"), it might be best to ask questions to those that are more versed in it. Maybe you can find some answers here. Read it and make your own judgements.

      Also, I am curious to know if any of the believers have some comtemporary religious journals that attempt to explain to non believers (like myself) some of the questions you posed (specifically in reference to the "atom particles" argument) using scientific terms, because I know there are people that believe in Christ and also believe in evolution and using scientific reason. I would be interestd to read them too.

      peace

      http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/
      http://www.richarddawkins.net/

    • *Have you ever questioned yourself the true reason of our existence?*

      Not particularly.

      *Have you ever stop and observe something natural and wondered why it so beautiful and appealing and what made it be like that?*

      I have often been awed by the beauty of the natural world, but felt no need to ascribe this beauty to some higher power.

      *Where did those tiny and smaller than atom particles came from, which seem to be our origin. And why were they happen to be in one place and not drifted apart and wander about in space?*

      I don't know. and there's nothing wrong with that. Crediting a god with this doesn't really solve the problem, because then you have to explain where god came from. If god can have existed always, why not the universe, sans god?

      *There are many such questions which require ‘unnatural force‘ as to be the answer.*

      No. We simply don't understand some things yet. It doesn't mean we wont find the answers in time. Just because we don't know something doesn't mean we have to fill the gaps of our knowledge with a god.

      *Why is it that we always lie about and say ‘I only believe in the proof of science’ where as the truth is we are scared to be answerable to some who would judge us according to our rights and wrongs?*

      It's not a lie. I am perfectly comfortable with not knowing some things, it doesn't frighten me. I am also not frightened of death, or what will happen afterwards. (my best guess is 'nothing') and if I live a life that is kind and just to other people, if I die and it turned out I was wrong all this time, and there is a god who is ready to send me to a fiery pit for all eternity because I didn't placate him with some words… well, he's petty and cruel, and doesn't deserve to be worshiped.

      Besides, you might be wrong. You're kinda screwed if you die and it turns out the Egyptians were right all along, or the Hindus, or the Muslims or…. the list goes on and on. but I'm betting you're not losing sleep over it. You're rejecting *thousands* of gods, I'm rejecting all the same ones, plus one. I mean, I could pray to Jesus tomorrow to save me, but… I could end up in the afterlife with a pissed off Odin. denied forever from Valhalla, woe. though atleast the Norse didn't have a hell as you think of it… you just sat around in Hel (single L) really bored while just knowing a really great party was happening in Valhalla, and you're not invited… ever.

    • apostolidis

      one word…. NUTS….

      sure they are.

    • Seraphim

      Dave,

      I appreciate your respectful response. It's much better than curse words (from others).

      I think perhaps you have confused open discourse and disagreement in beliefs with "being divided". My beliefs command me to "be at peace with all men". It is out of concern for my fellow man (and woman) that I share what I believe.

      Also, I have not always believed what I do now. It was something I arrived at by questioning things. So I do stand by my previous statements, and I do hope that Lina, and you, will both have an encounter with the risen Jesus, because I genuinely care about you. I also realize that in a mostly relativist post-modern society proclaiming what I have found to be truth, makes me sometimes come across as "judgemental" or "intollerant", simply on the basis of stating that there are objective facts, and objective standards of morality.

      Again, thank you for showing respect for others. Peace, and God bless you.

    • troni

      wouldn't it be awesome if the oldest brother turned out to be gay?

    • Jonas Quinn

      the older brother is defaniteley gay :)

    • scientific

      very sad

    • Kitty

      She's so horribly misguided. It's heartbreaking. She's wasting her whole life.

    • Tokamak

      **Have you ever questioned yourself the true reason of our existence?

      Yes, but stopped doing that, for the reason I believe there is no true reason of our existence. This might sound hard. We are intelligent beings who just happened to be thrown down on this planet by our mothers. Something that went on for many many ages. Humans die and are born. I am one of 6,5 billion of them. Compare it with ants. Why are they here? They build and breed and whatever they do. But they just do what they do. Now supersize that to our species, and imagine we are 'ants' to a series of extraterrestial beings. We just do what we do.

      **Have you ever stop and observe something natural and wondered why it so beautiful and appealing and what made it be like that?

      At first, I live in the Netherlands on land that didn't exist several centuries ago. It was drained by my ancestors. So pretty much anything near here is 'touched by modern man' :P. But besides that, I am aware those things have had a process of millions of years, so a beautiful rose or a stubborn cactus had millions of years to develop itself. The more beautiful the rose, the more chance that it will multiply. The more stubborn the cactus is, the better the chance to survive. With that in mind it seems plausible to me that nature did it all by themself.

      **And the big question who just relay on big bang…

      Big bang theory might not be as plausible as it used to be. Scientists discovered that there wás something before the big bang, probably another entire universe. See this big bang as a giant reset.

      **Where did those tiny and smaller than atom particles came from, which seem to be our origin. And why were they happen to be in one place and not drifted apart and wander about in space?

      I can not tell where these particles come from, and I'm fine with that. But what I do know is that all elements originated by nuclear fusion from lower elements, a process that all started with hydrogen. We discover smaller particles every day btw. On the second part, the answer is gravity. Gravity means in this case that particles tend to clutter. That is why they don't wander.

      **There are many such questions which require ‘unnatural force‘ as to be the answer.

      Raye's answer to this question is my answer too. We tend to fill gaps. And we do that with things that seems plausible, but are not. Just to fill the gap. That is why you often hear 'unnatural', 'extraterrestial', 'God'.

    • Elena

      Please stop telling those poor children that they are bad people…

    • a man of faith

      Its simply great she is being raised by a family of faith. And has become a person of faith who loves God, and has a relationship with the living God.
      I would like to meet her and her family because I respect their faith, and I wish there were lots more people who loved and lived for God like they do.

    • a man of faith

      There is no "child abuse" going on…..
      Child abuse is when parents are drunk or on drugs all the time, and don't take care of their kids.
      Child abuse is beating children and not feeding them food.
      Child abuse is verbally hurting children.

      But showing love, and living the life of faith in front of one's childrren is honorable. Not growing up with faith, and being deluded and deceived is usually a hopeless thing because of the way the world is. Face the truth….there is NO child abuse going on there.

    • Lance

      "Religion is the opium for the masses" -Karl Marx

      And for this I have only one more thing I wish to say. To all those who shun me for being an atheist "If you speak the truth, have a foot in the stirrup" -Turkish proverb

      For those who don't understand what I just said: if you claim that your religion is right and just then prove it. Promote non-violence and peace. I am tired of seeing petty wars over religious ideas.

    • this girl believes that she is going to spend eternity being tortured because she was born wicked. how is that NOT child abuse?

    • Bendik

      What a great post! I don't know if you quoted someone with the "you're rejecting thousands of gods…" part, it's brilliant nonetheless.

      About the wondering about something beautiful etc..: Human behavioral researchers and psychoanalysists have come up with some quite plausible theories about why this phenomenon exists. The human mind isn't as free as many would like to think. The book "The Human Animal" by Hans Hass is a great introduction to this subject (there is a doc on this site about the same subject with the same title, plagiarism, I assume).

      I completely agree that a God that sends you to eternal damntation and torment in Hell just because you didn't worship him (this should really be attributed to HIM for not manifesting himself) is petty and not someone you'd like to spend eternity with anyway.

      As to the list of questions: the only one I can think of that I have trouble imagining an acceptable (for me) physical explanation is about my conscience. I got a problem believing that this (in me: very strong) sensation of self awareness can derive from mutations and electromagnetical impulses. I do not, however, attribute it to a god. My answer is: I don't know, and the scientific explanations about it are, to me, ungraspable.

      A famous Norwegian author (Jostein Gaarder) once said: If our brain was simple enough for us to understand it, we'd be so stupid that we didn't understand it after all.

    • Alex

      So sad. I have no problem with these people how try teaching their children about religion and god and the bible. But teach them about everything, about the other religions, about science, about religious crimes in history… I am from Romania, amd my parents told me as a child about ordotox christianity (romanian's religion) but I stoppend beliving in a supernatural beeing when I was about 10. And that is because they haven't hidden anything from me but showed me the world as it is am let me take a conclusion.

    • Mike Manners

      I can't help but laugh at the Religious Bigots that come crawling out of the woodwork and wrongly bash Deborah's Parents as "Child Abusers". Oh shut up! These are loving and concerned parents who want to instill spirituality and morality into their kids. It is because people DON'T take time for their kids today that we have so many teen problems. Deborah's parents should be lauded.

      True Child Abuse would be to let your kids get into drugs, alcohol, sex, etc, etc and then smile, sit back and call it "freedom of choice".

      The God Haters and Atheists will never understand anything beyond their 5 senses.

      Good for you Deborah!!!

    • Laura

      i was raised in a strict Christian home with barely any freedom or friends. i rebelled when i was 14 and got right into sex, drugs and partying and left home at 16.

      i still have my faith but just wish i was educated about the rest of the world and other people's lifestyles rather than being forced to go to church several times a week and not be allowed to go to the movies or parties and be wondering why at my friends houses, their families don't hold hands and pray before they eat.

      i've seen it happen with girls i know from muslim families, too.

      there are girls born into strict religious families who live amongst westernised/liberal/non religious 'cultures' and there are some who dare to rebel; while the others dare not to wonder or long for or experience something other than what they've been fed their whole lives.

      as for Deborah putting the words "I'm a bad person" into people's mouths; why doesn't she let people know about the beautiful passages in the bible about how we were created in God's image, and that even the very hairs on our heads are numbered? that He knit you together in the womb, exactly how he wanted to make you? that He loves us SO much, that he gave himself in human form (Jesus) to enter the prison of h*ll on behalf of us? maybe if evangelists like Deborah let people know that God loves them and that we are all children of God, no matter what….instead of making people feel guilty and afraid as soon as she meets them, she wouldn't p*ss so many people off. and people may feel more welcomed.

      she seems so focused on what's WRONG. and on dying and going to h*ll. i hardly saw her smile or laugh in this doco. i don't know about her, but i don't believe God wants us to live miserable lives on earth in order to live in His kingdom for eternity.

      and anyway, who is a mere human to decide and tell someone whether they will go to h*ll or heaven? i believe trying to take on the role of God himself is a sin.

    • Rashida

      I think she is a very strong girl. Perhaps that strength will lead her into to becoming a christian woman or perhaps as she grows she will become something else all together…what ever she does she will be powerful at it. I was raised by a christian pastor and I am much different from my family now. I have very different beliefs and my lifestyle is different as well. But in my younger years I had phases that reminded me of this girls life. She is such a sweet girl really she is, if you listen carefully you can plainly see a child who is frightened to death by a story of something more horrible than she can even imagine called hell and wouldn't you try and warn everyone if you believed in a place like that. It's the only sensible thing to do really. She's never really heard anything else but this one story her whole life, she's just trying to help the best way she knows how.
      Although I don't find anything wrong with these people they are good people living peaceful lives, I do think exposure to all of the world's cultures is a beautiful thing and serves small children much better than just telling them one thing about how things came to be.

    • Stan L. Myers

      It is obvious that the BBC tried to paint this family as religious nuts. Hypocricy!

      I am sure they would not even dream of examining the Muslim people who home school or run Islamic Schools in the UK. NO…it is easier to go after devout Christians.

      What is really sick is that you people would rather have Deborah take drugs and have sex with 12 different guys before she was 15 rather than have a commited religious life.

      That in your perverted minds is "normal".

      Sickos…..

    • Lordrefaa

      The last scene says it all. How terrible it must be to live with all this self loathing, her brother seems to be more self indulgent and accepting compromises. His faith is probably more peaceful. First I was impressed by the way she doesn't care what other people think, but then I understood that she doesn't because she's convinced everyone is rotten and sinful in the eyes of her terrifying god. Each one of us grow feeling some guilt for things we regret having done, but she pushes it too far. What sins could a 15year old girl have committed to be condemned to hell?! I can only pity her for the destructive environment she grew in. It's really a shame because she sounds to be an intelligent person (the "sort of like you know" teenager dialect and lack of scientific curiosity apart…hum, well, there must be some other intelligence signs)

    • Truth Seeker

      If there really IS a heaven & hell, if GOD really exist, wouldn't the most lOVING thing to do be to WARN others of the judgement to come upon all those who reject God, His Word and His Son Jesus???

      The Bible is clear….just like all past prophecies leading up to Jesus have come true with 100% accuracy, we know judgement is coming and she is trying to warn others. She has not threatened or harmed anyone, but is genuinely concerned for the souls of mankind.

      The Lord is not slack concerning His judgement, but Long-suffering, not willing that any should perish. But if you confess Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart, you shall be SAVED!!! Turn from sin & turn to Jesus today!!

    • James

      People who believe and take as "normal" and as the core of our society that being a "fan of britney" and/or having sex while still child are degenerate people, u will see what will become our western societies with dumbo like you ! we fought during centuries to get our today's freedom and now look what we got = muslims invasion in west and dumbo tv program, deport all muslims out of west will be the first solution and lets continue our western civilisation without this useless muslims (look ALL muslims countries u will see what i mean by useless people)

    • keeleigh dunn

      i know deborah personaly, she is a kind,caring,happy, young teenager. she has no fear OF God she loves what she does,and she said to me that some of the stuff said by the bbc werent true about her family,and whilst they were filming they told her not to smile,they tried to make her seem like a miserable and isolated girl…she is not!

    • keeleigh dunn

      i know deborah and the bbc did try to make her seem isolated and miserable. she is actulaly a happy,funny,kind teen who loves what she does

    • ett

      wow… it sucks to live in a box. this IS child abuse and she WILL suffer later on in life. its a sad story. arrogance, arrogant limited people. sad.

    • Davis Johsenne

      The only NEGLECT and CHILD ABUSE in this show was perpetrated by the BBC in trying to paint Deborah and her family as dangerous Religous Fanatics.

      Like someone said below…the BBC would never DARE go after any UK MUSLIMS who home school their kids and read the Koran every day. Hypocrites!

      The BBC bimbo who interviewed Deborah was trying to push Britney Spears on her as if THAT crazy slut is a PROPER role model for a young girl. THAT is the real child abuse.

      If every young girl in the UK and US was raised like Deborah then there would not be the level of Teen pregnancy, drug abuse, STDs, etc. etc. that we have to put up with now.

      Sad world….

    • me girl

      1. i really think that the fact that the children are homeschooled is a liitle to much, because how do you expect them to grow up without knowing the "real" world that they will have to be in when they grow up. But i am really happy that she knows God with her heart.

      2. as we all know that the news make everything more dramatic then it really is, so i believe that she stays home a lot, but i m sure that she has at least some friends, she goes out shopping and is is a typcal christain girl, but only with more faith, and support from her family.

      3. I think that every person thinks about how they are going to meet their one and only. well and if her family keeps her away from guys (she asked the woman if she every talked to a guy) then when she will grow up she most likly have problems with that.

      but for the most part i believe that no ones perfect, and that could be just some of thoes things.

      GOD BLESS HER AND HER FAMILY!

    • Paul

      I think Debbie's brother said it well – sometimes you think she needs to tone it down, but when you think about it, perhaps I need to tone it up!

      She could do to learn a bit of tact in broaching the subject of sin in a way that does not immediately put people on the defensive, but she does have a solid grip on what is truly important in life.

    • warrior servant

      This girl is a watchman sent by the lord god almighty, with a spirit of testimony that is only like that of prophets.
      She truly understands the bilbe, only the spirit of the most high god can enlighter and quicker her spirit like this.
      She is truly blessed and the lord god goes before her. sometimes the lord sets aside choice servants to execute his works, that most men will not understand. finally, the carnal man cannot understand spiritual things, therefore man will look at her with a worldly eyes. testify deborah, testify, it is the will of the lord.

    • Gideon

      This is the most faithful, dedicated, Godly, truly Christian family I have ever seen. They are an inspiration and great example to follow. I felt convicted just watching this.

    • lolol

      Whoever believes in god is a moron. Holy shit this family was psycho..

    • jasonsociety

      What happened to reason and logical thinking?
      This girl is intelligent but needs to step outside the box and start thinking for her self not following a book blindly. We have no right to judge her but we have the oportunity to think freely, question things and make up our minds. I hope one day she will have that freedom.

    • Iain Thomas

      lolol, you stated: "Whoever believes in god is a moron."

      That's simply NOT true and is very mean spirited. For the record, I am an atheist and comments like yours will not garner you any support.

    • Nicole

      Who 'needs' to live in the real world if your living with God.

    • melanie

      I feel disgusted that the lady filming or tlkin in the documentry is asking a 13 year old about if shes thinkin about sex….and then you tell me theres nothing wrong with this world…if i had an oppurtunity i wud raise my child the same way…this world and the media is poisen….

    • DK McGreeb

      i think its absolutely, unbindingly disgusting and sick that people, especially parents, force religion on children. there is nothing more flawed and obviously completely made up than religion and any religion should really be illegal. i know the majority of you will disagree and probably think this statement is rediculous, so i say to you look in the mirror. if you cant see what religion is truly about, if you cant come to terms with the fact its all absolute bullshit, you are rediculous. id say i feel sorry for you, but that would just be lying. those blind enough to push out what actually exists for some blind faith in a rediculously adlibbed book (changed thousands of times over the years) truly deserve what they believe is 'hell'

    • DK McGreeb

      melanie you are infinitely wrong. you would really raise someone like this? you deserve death. of course people are going to think about sex when theyre 13, she'll have just hit puberty for fucks sake. youd rather fill your children full of lies and useless shit instead of let them figure out what is and isnt real? i really really pity your child, it is going to end up absolutely head fucked by adulthood

    • Sikkan

      DK McGreeb, you speak truth.

      Religion is something that should be expunged from existance.

      We must combat this pest and its blind followers – which I regard as nothing more than vermin – who impose this onto human beings.

      They are polluting the human race. We must put a stop to this.

    • Ken Walkeins

      TO ALL OF YOU ANTI RELIGIOUS BIGOTS THAT POSTED BELOW:

      You need to take your prejudiced, jaded, bigoted selves and MOVE TO NORTH KOREA. I will pay for the ticket. Democracy is about the FREEDOM to have whatever religious convictions you want. Go to China if you do not like it.

      WHO CARES WHAT YOU LITTLE SECULAR NAZI'S WANT?

      This girl Deborah has EVERY RIGHT to believe whatever she wants. Her parents have every right to instill whatever moral values they think right.

      Just because some of your own kids are having sex at 12, doing drugs and alcohol, and are morally corrupt does not mean that other people want that for their kids.

    • Sikkan

      Each person are entitled to their beliefs, as you say.

      However it is her parents who has imposed those beliefs. Beliefs that are destructive and serve no purpose. I know that applies to a lot of things, but I am not talking about those things.

      We should all care about the vermin that is destroying the human race with backwards ways that do not acknowledge the true ways of science and logic.

      Their mere existance is a threat to all of us. They must be exterminated.

      You can twist it, debate it and discuss it, but the fact remains that their religion contribute nothing but pain, suffering and misinformation to our species and thus have no purpose to exist, hence must be eliminated.

      We cannot progress unhindered when religion is allowed to run rampant. Not saying that religion is our only problem, it is however an enourmous one.

    • SeanP

      The highest percentage of child molestation, pregnancy and mental abuse both sexual and non have come from organized religion

      remember:

      Tony Alamo Christian Ministries
      Mount Cashel Orphanage in Newfoundland
      Juan Alberto Ovalle
      Billy James Hargis

      All members of the religious establishment.

      On top of that according to the National Association of Evangelicals the divorce rate among the flock is 34%, 9% higher then the national average. And according to the CDC the spread of VD is higher among the faithful because they unrealistically teach abstinence instead of the use of condoms. (ya can't pray away herpes)

      Lets face it the christian right has screwed up badly. Don't make me list the
      Jim & Tammy Bakers or the Jimmy Swaggarts or good ole meth smokin teddy there are way to many of them.

      The concern is that children are influential and easily conned into believing your fairytale. If you only ever hear that Santa is real then in a child's eyes Santa is real. It doesn't make the kid more moral to be christian just more judgmental.

      You may have some unfortunate circumstance in your life that demands or warrants you having an imaginary friend to lean on and that's ok, but children are innocent and shouldn't have to take on your beliefs in the bogyman to hart. Let them live without the constant demand for money or inappropriate touching that seems to coincide with your way of life.

      Sorry for being so blunt but I really don't like being called a NAZI

    • A. Bubbleburster

      If I get this right, what you're saying is that "In the name of FREEDOM" you are allowed to enslave others, even if kids?

      You can keep that "FREEDOM of yours" and PLEASE buy yourself a one way ticket to North Korea while you're at it.

      Any person (or God) in the World can't be YOUR'S! Everyone, and every creature, is presumably born FREE!
      "As meant by God" if you wish.

    • DK McGreeb

      Sean P, Sikkan, I respect you both very much, it is a crying shame that not all realise the obvious. I love the way that guy wrote 'they have the right to believe what they want, their parents have the right to impose what they want' or something to that fit. how can you even put those two phrases in the same sentence? just another massive contradiction rendered from your out-dated and literally stupid beliefs. its quite sad that you get retards like that thinking we are nazis for not accepting idiocy as fact. i personally am a man of english, irish, antiguan and jamaican origin, i have 2 'skin colours' and 4 countries heritage, proudly i must stress, and you think im a nazi?
      lets just realise here that the religious impose war because of their beliefs, they steal from other countries as they want land to call their holy land, they rape and pilage and im a nazi? because i want to lvie free of rules?
      unbelievable. then again, the religious have never been good at anything but smear campaigns unfortunately have they?

    • DK McGreeb

      Tell your pope i said 'checkmate'

    • Jack Kebek

      Don't worry too much over it dudes… To them, we are the scum of the earth, and to us, they are… well, I don't have the exact same opinion, but I prefer being on the "scum side" since "middle grounds" seem to have vanished from here.

      I think the situation is this : Rationality VS Beliefs, and it's been going on since societies got big enough so the two groups could separate ; somewhere along antic Greece or so. It's not been solved since!

      I noticed some can't argue without losing their self-control (if they ever had the chance to have any, after all, it's a gift eh?).

      So, the point is, if one can't control him(her)rself, you should consider some "consulting", or see a doctor and ask for medication or treatment. You'll certainly help yourself, and the whole of society at the same time.

      Good night everyone

      P.S. If I light a fire here, someone else put it out please ;^)

    • Becky

      I wonder if her older bother knows he's gay?

    • Jaëlla

      This documentary was very inspiring to me.

    • Imperien

      Two very important lessons here:

      First… Kids tend to be much more mature, well-behaved and capable of learning when kept out of traditional school systems.

      Second… All that potential can easily go up in smoke when that capacity to learn is used to absorb nonsense.

      Quite sad indeed. :(

    • Melissa

      So, learning all the sinful things in the world and worshipping pop idos and stick thin models is ok… but having a strong religious upbringing where these children are OBVIOUSLY better behaved and moral than other kids their age… THAT is wrong?
      Our world is so backwards.
      My husband and I weren't brought up this way, but we plan to bring our kids up this way. In the nurture and admonition of the Lord.
      The majority of the world that have a problem with it are convicted by it because they KNOW there is a God and they are living wickedly!
      There is no logical reason to be so offended by this, unless you know in your heart that you aren't right with God.

    • Imperien

      1) Lady GaGa fans haven't burned anyone at the stake for preferring another type of music and you'd be hard-pressed to find an example of runway models launching a jihad against Walmart shoppers.

      2) Religiosity has nothing to do with Deborah's mature behavior. I'm sure most folks can think of at least one potential-filled kid that turned into a brain dead baboon after being subjected to traditional school systems — Being smart simply isn't considered cool until much later in life.

      3) It's offensive because this intelligent young lady might have grown up to discover the cure for cancer and saved countless lives instead of wasting precious time on a futile mission to save so-called souls for a non-existent entity in the sky which supposedly created Adam & Eve a few thousand years ago.

      My sympathies to your children for the intellectual abuse you intend to unleash upon their impressionable young minds.

    • SeanP

      It's offensive because of the hate, bigotry and hypocrisy that comes with the culture of deity worship. Who is leading you? Who is overseeing what the children are being taught?

      The Leader of the National Association of Evangelicals Ted Haggard was caught smoking meth with a male prostitute.

      John Paulk from Focus on the Family and an outspoken hater of homosexuals turned out to be a homosexual (big surprise) after preaching hate for so long.

      The very very head of the American Christian College the guy that started it Billy James Hargis was having sex with the kids!!! old, young, girl, boy, he was caught with all of them.

      It's not the god myth that is the problem. It is the way it is manipulated in order to manipulate you. You have been taken, you are in a cult that has grown out of control.

      Keep your money and teach your children to be good because we are inherently good people.

      You don't have to scare them with the bogyman in order for them to love themselves and love others.

    • Seriously? What they're doing to these kids is akin to brainwashing. At 13, you shouldn't be contemplating your own death. Especially when you have you whole life ahead of you. It's sad, really.

    • LMFAO BECKY!!!!!!

    • Xethavosh

      LOL. I was just waiting for when the dramatic christian crying would start.

    • Xethavosh

      I was wondering that too.

    • Brother Charles

      My Dearly Beloved Sisters & Brothers,

      An Omniscient, Omnipresent and Omnipotent God – over which, ultimately, you are here squabling – quite simply, and by definition, completely encompasses each and every
      perspective which any of you might argue for, or against!

      You are all, each and every one, ultimately "right".

      Blessings upon you all!

      An All-knowing, at All-times and All-powerful Deity, in fact, could by its nature be no less (and is, I wager, a great deal more) than the source of embodiment for all
      assertions regarding any religion, for each practice and every practitioner.

      God doesn't need religion – only humans do! Just as we seemingly need to constantly bicker about it! Let there be Peace, on Earth, and let it begin with me.

    • CaptainCrispy

      Painful to watch. Poor kid.

    • Joey Anderson

      Poor Kid?

      What a JOKE!

      I guess you guys would rather Deborah be out sleeping around and getting pregnant, doing drugs, drinking, etc. etc – in other words living a life that many of YOUR kids probably live.

      It is sad but I think you pinheads are angry because you have FAILED to teach YOUR kids ANY morals and when you see a show like Deborah at 13 you feel guilty and condemn these parents for doing what YOU have failed to do.

      Sad and Pathetic.

    • Tipsy

      That's one angry response, Joey.

      I am just out of college. I was not raised with a single religious value instilled in my life. There was no church, no God.

      I have never done drugs, nor have I been 'sleeping around', and certainly never had a pregnancy scare. I have never been in trouble with the law, and I have had relationships in all facets of my life which are healthy and supportive.

      I'm not saying that the way Deborah was raised is the wrong way. But I wasn't raised that way, and I am a happy, and healthy individual. Please don't be so quick to shut out other options.

    • Mario

      What people really need to evolve into a better future is to get rid of the absurd, outdated and obsolute hocus pocus called Religion. God doesn´t need religion…
      because he only exists in your head…

    • Tyler Lemieux

      @ Joey

      Another person who somehow manages to make the non-existent correlation between being non-religious and having no morals.

      Sad and pathetic.

    • Phil Kravitz (from Brooklyn,NYC)

      Hey Tyler…Tipsey…

      You guys are rather angry with people who defend Deborah and her Families right to life a religious life. Why is that? Why do you all feel the need to dictate to others what to think and act?

      I noticed how you and the others failed to answer Joey A's main point….Would you rather have Deborah be a little tramp or be instilled with some sort of religious upbringing?

      Why are all of you Anti-god, Anti-religious types soooo bent on talking away people's right to have faith? What is so lacking in your life that you have to put it upon yourselves to condemn others for what you do not have the guts to do yourself?

      Any idiot can live a life of selfish materialism…..it takes courage and commitment to take a spiritual stand for right.

      By the way…I am a Jew from NYC….YOU GOTTA PROBLEM WITH THAT?

    • Vermiliongrrl

      How are you going to feel, Phil, when a fundamental religious belief of any kind tells you that you can't practice your own faith? Your comments clearly show that you believe people have a right to their own beliefs, so why bother saying things like, "Why are all of you Anti-god, Anti-religious types soooo bent on talking away people's right to have faith? What is so lacking in your life that you have to put it upon yourselves to condemn others for what you do not have the guts to do yourself?"

      Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black??

      FYI, religion is far from perfect. Look up what happened to Galileo. Oh and there's a few other good examples going on right now.

      I have no issues with religion, and I am an atheist living with a Baha'i with 1/3 of my family being Jehovah Witnesses. Im exposed to a lot of religion. But I have issue with hippocracy and narrow mindedness that religious people are the only people with morals.

    • Tipsy

      Phil, I believe you failed to address the main point of my comment, as well. I feel you skipped over the sentence that said, "I'm not saying that the way Deborah was raised is the wrong way."
      All I wanted to say with that entire post is that morality and religion are not mutually inclusive. It is not impossible to have one without the other.
      I also apologize if you read my comment to be angry in any way. It was by no means intended to be.

    • DK McGreeb

      phil kravitz, most people have too much remorse or just too many morals to say this, or indeed just lack the courage or intelligence to say it but it must be said so i'll do it.
      in your first question you ask why these guys feel the 'need' to impose what to think and how to act on people, yet you're asking this from a religious point of view. if that statement hasn't already made you feel a bit stupid, which it kind of should have if you've got any wit, then let me put it in perspective.
      pretty much all religions say everyone should do what the book of said religion says, everyone. hence a fundamental need to impose what to think and how to act unto others. dont try and turn that around onto the few that arent blinded by faith.

      secondly, the question you say was not answered is fundamentally flawed anyway in the sense that it assumes automatically if she isnt a faith-blinded shut-in she is a 'little tramp'. what an absolutely rediculous notion. my sister isnt religious, she has no kids and is 25. my cousin tom is catholic, he has an 'illigitimate' or 'bastard' child with ANOTHER catholic, they're aged 18 and 17.

      furthermore, it is not the anti-god or anti-religious that are bent on taking away peoples right to choose faith, it is the people of different faiths, because all faiths say everyone should belive in that one faith hence causing conflict, hatred and will to remove other faith. dont try turning that one around onto the unblind few either.

      you also go on to say any idiot can live a life of self materialism, so the religious ministers dont have lavish houses and any amounts of money? dont be so stupid. a home truth is that any idiot can go along with something someone else says, but it takes courage and commitment to learn what life is about yourself, through proven facts and self experience. if you want to think youre being clever by believing a book of impossible nonsense and that im being idiotic by living a life that helps me survive and helps me understand how things REALLY work and what everything really is then you yourself have proven yourself to be an idiot, with of course the aid of this statement.

      on a final note i will also stand up and say yes, you are a jew from new york and i have a problem with that. a huge problem. i dont think you should be treat any differently to anyone else or anything, do not take me for a nazi or any stupid closed-minded fascist type like it as thats not what im about. i have a problem with you being a jew in new york because there should be no faith, you should just be a real guy instead of a jew, as should all religious people. drop the rediculous and obviously wrong and ill-foundered beliefs andopen your eyes to the real world. also, new york plays a major role in alot of the worlds economy and governing power, i have a BIG problem with the religious being in control of anything other than other religious people that bring idiocy upon themselves. dont go replying by putting words in my mouth by the way saying daft shit like 'you think jews should be killed?' because like stated above i dont want you to die, i want you to realise youre being childish and just grow up, become a real person.

    • DK McGreeb

      oh yeah dont say im all angry and stuff too, i saw you started deciding peoples moods for them when you didnt like their posts so for the record im in quite a happy mood, ive finished working and everything for the night and im now going to go to bed, WITHOUT praying. ill probably do something fun instead, like have a whiskey or a joint :)

    • Imperien

      "I noticed how you and the others failed to answer Joey A's main point…"

      Joey's "main point" was addressed long before he made it, silly. Several times in this very thread and countless times in others.

      You see, Phil, it's THE main argument used by peeps desperate to justify the practice of indoctrinating children into such an obviously flawed belief system.

      Ironically, a very similar form of "logic" (for lack of a better term) was employed for the Hitler Youth movement — While the latter didn't seem to have the wholesale child sexual abuse issues it sure did have the false sense of purpose and moral duty. And worship, of course. Can't forget that one!

      Be that as it may… It's more than a little amusing to see you admonish Tyler and Tipsy for their "angry" comments when, in reality, they were calm, cool and collected in their response to Joey who, ironically, was clearly the angry one hurling insults around.

      What's so amusing about it? Well, not only are you easily duped into believing in ancient fairytales… You apparently have no trouble deluding yourself about events that take place right before your very eyes!

      At least you're consistent, Phil.

      Have yourself a happy non-denominational winter solstice festival, my angry little faith-head.

    • Phil Kravitz (from Brooklyn,NYC)

      @ DK McGreeb,Imperien,Tipsy, and Vermiliongrrl

      I thank you all for your "enlightened" and "humane" reaction to my post. LOL

      I love it. You guys make my point for me…over and over.

      Man…you guys are so bitter…It now ceases to be amusing and is getting rather pathetic and sad.

      Yes…go ahead and make an issue that I am Jewish. Please go ahead. Again…you are making my entire argument for me.

      The fact that you have to descend to that low type of argument and attack speaks volumes about what kind of people you are.

      I am sure if we all lived in 1930's Germany all of you enlightened and superior people (cough) would gladly shove many of us Religious Types into the ovens.

      Many of us young Jewish boys go to Hebrew School starting at 3. That is the way we ensure cultural survival as a people. But if it was up to you wonderful people all…we would be marginalized and devalued.

      Sad.

    • Arlani Purvis

      I do not normally do not get into internet debates but I felt I MUST say something here

      I have read some of these comments by some of you.

      I must say I am shocked at the gross intolerance and cultural ignorance displayed here.

      Many of you make very biased and judgmental generalizations about ALL religious people – as if all people of faith act and live the same way.

      I tremble for my dear country when I realize that there are people like you living and breathing your ignorant and arrogant ideas so freely.

      Phil has a right to be Jewish. Deborah has a right to choose the faith she wants as well – without the slurs, name calling, and dehumanizing diatribes.

    • SeanP

      Arlani

      Deborah did not choose her religion her parents did, that is the point of the argument.

      and to others the arrogant assumption that a upbringing without a sky fairy or magic cloud elf would result in an immoral child is ridicules and therefor Joey A's question is not worth answering. Our values come from our humanity not from our myths. Family values was not created by the evangelistic church they just made it into a profitable business.

    • Vermiliongrrl

      I don't have arrogant and intolerant ideas and Im certainly not as presumptuous as you. You decided to chide us for our reactions and opinions and MAKE YOUR OWN ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT OUR CHARACTERS.

      Excuse me for posting an opinion in response to an opinion. What an odd thing to happen on a forum.

    • Vermiliongrrl

      And Phil, you are an appalling person to say that anyone would gladly shove anyone into an over. Im sure your god is proud of that comment.

    • Wondering

      A while ago, Seraphim said: "There is no "before" Jesus. He has eternally existed." I have a rather large (dinosaur-sized) bone to pick with this statement. We can all agree that Christianity, the concept of Jesus, and the concept of the Christian God is around two thousand years old. Your statement that there is no "before Jesus" implies the following:
      1) There is no Old Testament, or at least that the Old Testament is a lie and none of it ever happened, because it would have had to take place in the fictitious time "before Jesus". Therefore, since the Old Testament doesn't exist, Genesis never happened, and God never existed and therefore couldn't fashion himself into the demigod entity that is Jesus. Wait, demigod? Doesn't that concept come from the ancient Greeks and Egyptians? But that was way before Jesus? Which brings me to:
      2) Ancient societies did not exist – the ancient Greeks, Plato, ancient Mesopotamian and Mesoamerican cultures all existed for THOUSANDS OF YEARS, but only sprang up around two thousand years ago. Now we know this isn't true, (mostly 'cause they're not around anymore) because we've dated artifacts to "B.C." (which just happens to mean "Before Christ"). But what you're telling me is that we are mistaken in calling these artifacts four thousand years old. Plato, Socrates, Aristotle… all these men existed within the last two thousand years, did they?
      This is related to:
      3) Societies even older than that, the oldest known of which existed around 11,000 B.C. (again, meaning "Before Christ") definitely can't exist, because the world wasn't even invented then. All the artifacts we have from these societies are misdated, or fake. That is what you're saying isn't it?

      Alright, so yes, I am aware that I'm getting over-righteous over a technicality that will probably be reduced to Seraphim having misspoken. She probably didn't mean to say that there is no "before Jesus", but that there is no before God. But the fact of the matter is that religion was invented (yes, that's right I said invented) by MAN when he realised that he could not explain how the world worked, and didn't much like this state of affairs. We have documented proof of this on papyrus and parchment and stone and metal and pottery that is thousands of years old. Every society had its own names for the gods that did the same things. Let's not forget that before the Romans found the Christian God, they worshipped Jupiter, Apollo, Juno, Ceres, Diana, and Mars. And if you ask me, they were a whole lot more interesting, being, as they were, rather incestuous, and prone to turning people into objects if they got a little too self-rightous. (Uh oh. Guess I'll be a science textbook next time we meet.)

    • cj

      @ IMPERIEN

      "runway models launching a jihad against Walmart shoppers"

      i like your thoughts dude!!! you rule!!

    • (just a) F R O G on the LOG

      I have a "cyber crush" on Imperien

      And yes, I did watch the film – I choose to refrain from commenting
      (although it is a worthwhile watch)

    • Paul McCartney

      People, people, people!

      Live and let die.

    • A

      "Go to China if you do not like it."

      Lol. Yes, because Communist, Buddhist China just LOVVES Christians….

    • Ken

      I love seeing Darwin thumping foaming at the mouth athiestic fundalmentalists blow a gasket cause some disagree and refuse to follow the official government religion. As for dinosoar bones be carefull, if you drop one and it breaks Darwins halucination go up wet goey marrow!
      As for Woundering's qustion about before Jesus I'll try to make this simple for you. God came to earth to save man from there sins. Please note the word "came". When someone visits you believe it or not they actually existed BEFORE they knocked on your door. That is because they "CAME" to visit you. I know the BIBLE has many words and no pretty pictues (unless added by the publisher to help people) so most people are biblical ignorant.
      The bible reaveals God and is "GOD breathed". Other religions were invented to explain why people felt bad when they raped their kid sister or ate an aging uncle. Darwins religion does away with guilt and excuses all. So murders have used the bible to justify war and murder falsly. More people have been killed by Darwiniism then all religions combined. Hitler will go down in history as Darwins pope.

    • dwyane shaw

      @Ken,

      1st – The notion that Hitler was not a Christian is highly debatable. I am aware of no instance where Hitler publically denounced Christianity. BUT, even if he was an atheist, the German people were not.

      What IS NOT debatable is the Germans in general were in fact a very Christian people. Germany was the hotbed of Christian activity and commentary, at least, into the beginning of the 20th century.

      What is NOT debatable is that Hitler had a reletively easy time of advancing his pogrom against the Jews because of the centuries of Christian hatred and persecution of the Jews. Hitler was merely tapping into popular religious sentiment.

      I've been over this whole country (America) and i've never met an atheist racist. It takes religion, a belief that one is the "specially chosen of God", to create a racial mindset. I defy you to name a single prominant person or organization, which claims to be an athiest, that expresses racist views. I can name several Christians

      2nd – Darwinism is not a 'religion'. A religion is a belief based on faith in the unknowable- accompanied by dogmatic rules of conduct.

      Darwinism, whether you agree with it or not, is based on repeatable scientific expeirements that always return the same results. Therefore, it is a scientific theory -not a religious belief. I realize that science books are mostly words with few pictures, so i dont really expect you to understand that, in scientific terms, a theory is not merely an opinion.

      3rd- i am an atheist that has in fact read your Bible several times in its various translations (*)- NOWHERE in the bible does it specifically say anything about a Triune Godhead. The Trinity is 4th century dogma -not scripture (*to the novice, i recommend the Readers Digest Condensed Bible..it does away with alot of the repetition and reads more like a novel than a contract – no chapter/verse notations though)

    • Amanda

      Dear God. I'm appalled at the utter garbage I just read. I don't even know where to begin. Your ignorance and bigotry astounds me, and I live in the Deep South. I've seen a KKK rally and that didn't even bother me as much as what you just said.
      I do believe that Darwin's Theory has merit, and certainly has a hell of a lot more merit than "There's nothing….BAM, now there's something." Which is EXACTLY what the Christian version of creation is. Anyway, that's just my opinion. The reason that "Darwinists" get so upset when people try to argue with Darwin's theory, is because most people who argue don't have a credible scientific theory to back it up! And Creationism is NOT a credible scientific theory! You cannot study it, you cannot try to re-create it, etc etc.
      Also, the part where you say that,

      "Other religions were invented to explain why people felt bad when they raped their kid sister or ate an aging uncle."

      No, religion came about as a way to explain things that humans couldn't. Like, let's say you're crops were bad, so you make an offering to Demeter, the Greek goddess of the harvest, hoping to appease her, because obviously you must've pissed her off along the way.

      Last but not least, calling Darwinism a religion is completely redundant, and saying that more people have been killed by Darwinism than all religions combined, really just makes me pity you more than anything. Actually, if any religion has the most blood on it's hands, it's Christianity. Do your research before you….Speak.

    • abdullah

      if you think the family oppressed her then I think you just jealous. It really caught my eyes and I believe the family did a good job. Think of it, the youth today have more in common with someone who appears successful but has some dirty things in the closet than Jesus (PBUH) , mosses(PBUH) and Muhammad(PBUH). Its really sad to see that we are taking as role models people who are proud of being shot or selling drugs, or publicly showing their sins.

      for the parents of the family I really say bravo!!! and May God guide us to whats more straight.

    • Joseph18

      @ Seraphim —- You sound like Darth Vader. “You are part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor! Take her away!”

    • Nolan Rogers

      I wish nothing but the best for Deborah Draper and her family.

    • Nolan Rogers

      The Drapers stand bravely in the face of Religious Bigotry and Hate and come across with Class and Dignity.

    • Martin

      She’s never heard of the Beatles, oh that’s a shame! The band that brought all sorts of eastern religion and bad morals to the western world.. Hopeless Christians that never can conform to the sick and dark world we live in! Praise God (or I mean “chance”) that there are such people as you who think for themselves (or possibly as the media and popular culture says that you should think)….

      God bless you and awake you,

      /Martin

    • Martin

      Not all are the children of God. Jesus says: “You must be born again”.

      If I am sick I must know the cure to get well. If there is a “sin-problem” in my life and the only way to get right with God is to repent of my sin and follow God, then that is what I need to know.

      Have you repented of your rebellion and sin?

      May God bless you,
      /Martin

    • Martin

      Amen!

    • Martin

      I am sad that you only can see those bad examples of Christianity. I wish you would read of the Lord Jesus and of other people of the Bible who lived upright and good lives. Many a thousand of Christians have lived good and decent lives and not the type you find with those people you speak of.

      God is good and those people have lost God out of sight and lived their lives in a way that is a shame to the name of Christ and the gospel.

      May God bless you,
      /Martin

    • Lyle

      WHAT?!?!?!?!
      A CHILD GOES UNSATURATED IN SIN!!!!!!
      NO WAY!!!!!

    • flo

      from lina,,,”i want a direct relationship with god simple and clear…”

      well…..tuff shit, lina.

    • terry beaton

      Reality, as it is experianced by each us, is so much more than Science or Religion can adequatly explain. If you rely too much on one or the other to shape your view of existance, you are certainly going to be missing important tools in your search. If you really have an open mind and care for your fellow man there is no way you can ever be truly satisfied with the anewers provided by the narrow scope of Science or Religion. Your average scientist is rather geekish and lives primarily in his intelect, having great trouble understanding emotions and human feelings. Your average religious person lives too much outside of their intelect and never even ponders alot of very important scientific questions. As I say, both Religion and Science alone are simply parts of a larger picture that niether has all the answeres to. Lets all try to live together without grasping too hard at answers that others hold out. It’s more important to think about others feelings than “feel” about how others think!

    • Pilar

      ROFLMAO

    • Janesa

      Keep it coming, wrtiers, this is good stuff.

    • Irene

      This is way more helpful than anything else I?ve loekod at.

    • Billybob

      A mniute saved is a minute earned, and this saved hours!

    • Jennylee

      The genius store called, they?re rnunnig out of you.